Author Topic: Explorative Microsoft Azure "Partnership"  (Read 971 times)

rhinomonkey

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Explorative Microsoft Azure "Partnership"
« on: March 10, 2016, 02:44:19 am »
All,

Those who have not seen on Bitcointalk, Coins101 posted a vote yesterday about making an application to the Microsoft Azure service. Other coins that have been added to the service are Ethereum, Factom, and Emercoin - just off the top of my head. The vote was a resounding yes, aside from one no. I am linking the OP here so that conversation/ discussion can happen here and we can reference it in the future. I will also post some of the more informative posts from Bitcointalk here when I am able to. Feel free to discuss here or there, though. This is sort of Spreadcoin's home so it would be great to get some more discussion on here. But I do agree that we are bound to get more exposure on BTCT. I think it is valuable to make sure there is no particular part of the community that misses out on important things going on because they don't check BTCT. Anyways, here is the OP and link to the topic:

Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1392053.msg14138999#msg14138999

Background:

Back in January, someone (we don't know him/her) posted a comment on an Azure blog post that Microsoft Azure should allow Spreadcoin onto the Azure BaaS platform:



https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/azure-blockchain-as-a-service-update-3/

Marley Gray, Director @Azure, said it would be great to have Spreadcoin on the platform.

Read more about the Azure Blockchain as a Service, here: http://www.coindesk.com/microsoft-blockchain-azure-marley-gray/

The dev team discussed this at the time and we pushed the decision out until progress was made on ServiceNodes.

There was some disagreement about the amount of time involved in making the application to join the platform and if it was warranted. Discussions about overt corporate relationships was also an issue.

We have reviewed the situation again and as ServiceNode testnet gets closer, we are asking the community if some dev time should be allocated to making an application to join the Azure Cloud.  The application will be made after ServiceNodes are on testnet; plus it might not be successful and that is the main risk that we see at the moment.

The lead dev, Georgem, wants to know what the community thinks and he want to listen to the pros and cons. He is open to the idea of working towards joining the Azure program if the overall feedback warrants a closer look and it doesn't end up compromising the project or the principle of decentralization.

Personally, I consider the Azure platform could be a great partner for Spreadcoin and it's stated goals of running many different services, in particular full Bitcoin nodes.  A package testnet build could be created so spinning up ServiceNodes could be a fast and easy way to launch a spreadcoin node and a Bitcoin full node.

Azure competes with many other cloud environments, such as AWS so this would not be an exclusive cloud relationship. ServiceNode operators have the ultimate choice of where to host their nodes, locally or on a cloud platform. The main criteria will be that each ServiceNode will need its own IP address.

So, vote and have your say. All pros and cons welcome.  To avoid competitors and trolls hijacking the vote, no votes in particular need to have a post saying why not.  The votes will be weighted accordingly.

Main Spreadcoin thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1045373.0

Disclosure.

As part of my day job, Azure are considering using a software product I support and they might end up using an app I built as they seek to grow their Cloud offering.





rhinomonkey

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Re: Explorative Microsoft Azure "Partnership"
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2016, 02:50:43 am »
A selection of posts that provided value to the conversation:

Minerpage
The lead dev, Georgem, wants to know what the community thinks and he want to listen to the pros and cons. He is open to the idea of working towards joining the Azure program if the overall feedback warrants a closer look and it doesn't end up compromising the project or the principle of decentralization.

I personally support this simply because I can make IMMEDIATE use of this inclusion to build applications on top of the SPR block chain and integrate this with other Azure components (database, websites, etc.). Many companies (that I know) already have Azure services and it instills a lot of confidence having SPR be part of that service offering. I don't believe this takes away from the decentralization principle simply because there are no modifications needed on the SPR side of things. Provide an API and everybody is happy!



Spoetnik

Why would it need to be a loss of productivity ?
All you would have to do is file a request i'd imagine. (and pay the monthly service fee)
And by the looks of it MS (Azure guys) seem interested in block chain users.
I don't suppose it's because they are attracting new Azure customers ?  :D

I called it waaaay in advance too.. i said all kinds of other coins would jump on this trend.

Let's start a long list now of MICROSOFT COIN USERS

so..

MS uses ETH now
MS uses IOTA too
and now.. Spreadcoin might get used by MS too

MAN MICROSOFT SURE LOVES TO USE ALTCOINS WOWOWOWOEEEEEE

defunctec

Why exactly would MS want SPR?

I don't really understand? What does SPR offer right now? I can understand Eth, but SPR?

Maybe with the implementation of Servicenodes, yes maybe.
But right now? its just a shitcoin  ::)

Assuming SN's even come out.

So i'm a no.

gjhiggins

we are asking the community if some dev time should be allocated

Well-motivated but needs more thought.

Spreadcoin is not a legally-constituted entity in any jurisdiction so cannot be a party to a contract.

No-one can enforce exclusive representation of Spreadcoin and no-one can legally represent Spreadcoin as a party to a contract.

No-one's permission nor agreement is required to pursue an application for MS to add SPR the list of supported alts (AIUI, it reduces to persuading someone to create and submit a Docker file for MS to add to an MS-hosted directory).

So, supplementary question - who is offering to shoulder the responsibilities of:

- development
- testing
- maintenance
- continuous integration
- technical support
- liaison with MS
- ensuring continuity

About a week's initial devops work there I reckon (for the bulk of it), about $2500 at contract rates. Plus the ongoing maintenance task, of course - well, once the paradigm is established, it would do SPR more harm than good to have a publicly broken Azure-hosted service than to not offer a service at all.

Cheers

Graham


Georgem

we are asking the community if some dev time should be allocated

Well-motivated but needs more thought.

Spreadcoin is not a legally-constituted entity in any jurisdiction so cannot be a party to a contract.

No-one can enforce exclusive representation of Spreadcoin and no-one can legally represent Spreadcoin as a party to a contract.

No-one's permission nor agreement is required to pursue an application for MS to add SPR the list of supported alts (AIUI, it reduces to persuading someone to create and submit a Docker file for MS to add to an MS-hosted directory).

So, supplementary question - who is offering to shoulder the responsibilities of:

- development
- testing
- maintenance
- continuous integration
- technical support
- liaison with MS
- ensuring continuity

About a week's initial devops work there I reckon (for the bulk of it), about $2500 at contract rates. Plus the ongoing maintenance task, of course - well, once the paradigm is established, it would do SPR more harm than good to have a publicly broken Azure-hosted service than to not offer a service at all.

Cheers

Graham


Very good points!
And I agree, this all looks like a "rushed" move,
although I like the spirit of the people behind this idea.

If anything I like that we explore this with the necessary caution,
so I welcome the discussion.

Microsoft has not much info available about all the open quesions/liabilities/legalities, etc...

BTW, I state my own opinion about this, starting here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1045373.msg14139295#msg14139295 and continuing over the next few pages.

Coins101

we are asking the community if some dev time should be allocated

Well-motivated but needs more thought.

Spreadcoin is not a legally-constituted entity in any jurisdiction so cannot be a party to a contract.

No-one can enforce exclusive representation of Spreadcoin and no-one can legally represent Spreadcoin as a party to a contract.

No-one's permission nor agreement is required to pursue an application for MS to add SPR the list of supported alts (AIUI, it reduces to persuading someone to create and submit a Docker file for MS to add to an MS-hosted directory).

So, supplementary question - who is offering to shoulder the responsibilities of:

- development
- testing
- maintenance
- continuous integration
- technical support
- liaison with MS
- ensuring continuity

About a week's initial devops work there I reckon (for the bulk of it), about $2500 at contract rates. Plus the ongoing maintenance task, of course - well, once the paradigm is established, it would do SPR more harm than good to have a publicly broken Azure-hosted service than to not offer a service at all.

Cheers

Graham


Emercoin, Factom and ETH have all jumped in value by a factor of many millions each since going on the Azure platform.

Can you work out the cost benefit of that, at contract rates?


rhinomonkey

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Re: Explorative Microsoft Azure "Partnership"
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2016, 02:53:42 am »
Forgot this one that wasn't posted in that particular topic:

Just created an account to pipe in here... I think you guys are woefully under-explaining the Microsoft thing. It's very simple: they'll offer pre-packaged SPR-enabled cloud instances if an application is submitted and the code is vetted as safe for their platform. Nothing about this "moves" the SpreadCoin network. Nothing about this changes SpreadCoin. Nothing about this forces or even persuades SPR users to start using Azure services *unless* they, of their own volition, find it convenient to assist in the operation or development of SPR-related services.

Ethereum, Factom, Emercoin and several more coins have been accepted to this platform. None of them are in a "partnership" with Microsoft. None of them have "moved" to the Microsoft network. None of them have changed any of their code, governance, licensing, funding, or anything else about their project. I honestly have no idea where the concept of moving the SpreadCoin network to a centralized partnership with overlord Microsoft comes from, but it's waaaaaaaay off the mark of what's actually been offered/implemented. Having not gone through the application myself, I can't be sure, but from what I can infer from the experiences of other projects, the vetting process seems to be self-contained to a code-safety review within Microsoft.

As for why it would be advantageous (aside from the price/investor confidence/growth), I believe this is a completely benign program to participate in that doesn't threaten decentralization, arguably increasing it through easier, immediate, and reliable end-user access to SPR services and development. If PayPal said they're accepting SpreadCoin to process payments and SPR doesn't have to change anything about themselves - would you consider that centralization? Would you be wary of such an integration? This isn't the same level, but it's similar. You have a platform with major exposure, solid support, and in this case, a particularly forward-thinking team behind it for coming from such a corporate behemoth (who else is doing Blockchain-as-a-Service, seriously?) and they've read the SPR whitepaper and would be happy to help support the SPR community and ecosystem by offering it on their experimental and forward-thinking BaaS platform.

I honestly don't see how this can be perceived as a threat or a dangerous thing. If the service sucks, no one uses it. If Azure makes no money off of BaaS, it ceases to be offered. If they offer reliable service for an attractive price, enabling developers and users to access SPR more easily or more economically, then all this is, is decentralized infrastructure (you do know what Azure is, right?) building around SpreadCoin. Frankly I'm stunned that the de facto project lead on SPR is so under-informed on his main competitors/counterparts, and what's happening in this business space. Not trying to be a dick, but you probably need some more hands on deck with various strengths and knowledge. Beyond the code. And then you need to seriously consider to their advice, the hard part. ;)


I've been with spread since Mr. Spread launched it, btw, had an old account here that I deleted last year, used to be a "Hero" - some would probably remember me. Anyway, I stop in every month or so just to see what's happening, and I had to clarify this Microsoft misunderstanding going on. Good luck with whatever direction the project goes, still have coins in the vault and watching curiously.

rhinomonkey

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Re: Explorative Microsoft Azure "Partnership"
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2016, 02:54:57 am »
Please feel free to weigh in with your thoughts / any information you may have on this!  ;D ;D ;D

georgem

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Re: Explorative Microsoft Azure "Partnership"
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2016, 03:28:27 pm »
Thanks for doing this.
We let too many important discussions go to waste, ...

Microsoft/Azure seems to be the newest buzzword that is (ab)used as a vehicle to drive investor speculation, when in reality it's not that much of a big deal.

My main goal with spreadcoin is to keep it as open and free as possible. No affiliations, no partnerships, no nothing.

But any user of spreadcoin software is ofcourse free to enter any contract with any legal (or even illegal) entity he likes.

I don't have to care, that's the beauty of decentralization and non-liability: it's a permissionless system.  8)


rhinomonkey

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Re: Explorative Microsoft Azure "Partnership"
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2016, 01:58:01 am »
It's my pleasure! There have definitely been some great discussions in BTCT and it is a shame to see them disappear from the community's collective memory per se.

I think Azure will be a good path for some. Maybe not others. I may run a node or two on their cloud for shits to see what it's all about.