Author Topic: Main discussion thread (similar to BCT)  (Read 12098 times)

georgem

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Re: Main discussion thread (similar to BCT)
« Reply #120 on: January 23, 2017, 01:22:24 am »
Thank you to all my patrons for their support.

If you would like to support me too, use one of the donation-addresses in my signature,
or if you want to use fiat money, visit my patreon page:

https://www.patreon.com/hamsterinthemachine

Thanks again.

georgem

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Re: Main discussion thread (similar to BCT)
« Reply #121 on: January 23, 2017, 07:50:11 pm »
What do you guys think?

I am looking for a way to sell all my SPR holdings,
and go full patron mode from now on.

This way I can become a "truly independent dev", which will be needed if we want to take the principles of decentralization serious, and I think it will also send a good signal! 
I always wanted to be more like a Bitcoin dev (greg maxwell, etc..) when it comes to how my work is funded, instead of having it done like an Altcoin Dev (e.g. evan duffield who is simulatenously dev and the biggest currency holder).

I wanted to wait a few days with this, but some guy in the BCT thread is looking to buy lots of SPR and I thought this would be a good opportunity.

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/spr/address.dws?ShutUpHxbuLdy22g9NE4afviUr2Cnqd68H.htm

131850 SPR.

I want to use this money to buy a few GPU models, hardware and lots of rapsberry pi's, which will be needed for the spreadwallet, spreadminer and my network-experiments.

Also, another reason why I am doing this is:
I can't claim to be working on a decentralized servicenode model (that doesn't favor big whales) while being a big investor myself.
It would be a conflict of interest.
A Masternode-Wealth-Redistribution-Scam similar to Dash (or mr.spread's implementation) will never happen with Spreadcoin, as I alluded here.

I have no problem with rich people holding lots of SPR, but it would a "nightmare on centralization street" if those big whales controlled most of the servicenodes.

How does 4 BTC sound?

As an extra: you will become an insta-patron immediately forever, and I will send you any future preview version of all the tools I create (the first spreadwallet-previewversion to be released very soon).

This is an open offer to everyone.

What do you guys think? Good move? Bad move?

georgem

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Re: Main discussion thread (similar to BCT)
« Reply #122 on: January 23, 2017, 08:05:33 pm »
Let me add to this.

I think it's a good opportunity for a few reasons:

1) Most of this money is not even my money, but a donation that stonehedge made that I was supposed to use for dev work specifically.
That's what I intend to do. I will buy Hardware specifically needed for the tools I am currently developing.

2) It's a good opportunity to switch to patron-only funding.
If my funding is dependent on how happy my patrons are, then this will create a healthy feedback loop that will benefit all of us.

3) It does NOT BENEFIT those big-time investors that have been trying for a long time to control EVERY ASPECT of spreadcoin.
And I mean literally every aspect of this coin.

4) It frees my mind, so that I can concentrate on decentralization.

BTW, nothing changes, I am just looking for a way to get rid of this money so I don't owe stonehedge any kind of favors.

georgem

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Re: Main discussion thread (similar to BCT)
« Reply #123 on: January 23, 2017, 08:22:37 pm »
Okay, I wanted to get this off my chest early.

Feels good.



Now I will return to normal dev mode, we have a few things to discuss.

georgem

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Re: Main discussion thread (similar to BCT)
« Reply #124 on: January 23, 2017, 10:22:47 pm »
Here is a screenshot showing how I currently save data that is received in SPV mode:



All those coin's nodes have as of this time been synced 100%.

It's interesting to see that SPR is by far the biggest size (if you look at the .dat file).

227 MByte.

Since SPR blockheaders are bigger than most other coins (most are 80 bytes, SPR is 185 bytes) and we are also a 1 min coin this adds up to 227 MByte,
also growing more rapidly then other coins.

Not that this is a problem, but just an interesting fact.


pokeytex

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Re: Main discussion thread (similar to BCT)
« Reply #125 on: January 24, 2017, 01:54:02 am »
What do you guys think?

I am looking for a way to sell all my SPR holdings,
and go full patron mode from now on.

This way I can become a "truly independent dev", which will be needed if we want to take the principles of decentralization serious, and I think it will also send a good signal! 
I always wanted to be more like a Bitcoin dev (greg maxwell, etc..) when it comes to how my work is funded, instead of having it done like an Altcoin Dev (e.g. evan duffield who is simulatenously dev and the biggest currency holder).

I wanted to wait a few days with this, but some guy in the BCT thread is looking to buy lots of SPR and I thought this would be a good opportunity.

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/spr/address.dws?ShutUpHxbuLdy22g9NE4afviUr2Cnqd68H.htm

131850 SPR.

I want to use this money to buy a few GPU models, hardware and lots of rapsberry pi's, which will be needed for the spreadwallet, spreadminer and my network-experiments.

Also, another reason why I am doing this is:
I can't claim to be working on a decentralized servicenode model (that doesn't favor big whales) while being a big investor myself.
It would be a conflict of interest.
A Masternode-Wealth-Redistribution-Scam similar to Dash (or mr.spread's implementation) will never happen with Spreadcoin, as I alluded here.

I have no problem with rich people holding lots of SPR, but it would a "nightmare on centralization street" if those big whales controlled most of the servicenodes.

How does 4 BTC sound?

As an extra: you will become an insta-patron immediately forever, and I will send you any future preview version of all the tools I create (the first spreadwallet-previewversion to be released very soon).

This is an open offer to everyone.

What do you guys think? Good move? Bad move?

@georgem - I just have a couple questions.  Why sell your SPR?  What motivation will you have to make SPR grow and prosper without having any SPR?  Also, if your goal is to decentralize why would you want to sell that much SPR to another individual like the person trying to buy 300k plus?  I am sure I am missing something.  Thanks for the response. -pokeytex

georgem

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Re: Main discussion thread (similar to BCT)
« Reply #126 on: January 24, 2017, 03:28:06 am »
Clear, concise questions, I love it.

Why sell your SPR?
 

To buy hardware, right now, so that I can use it, right now.
I calculated that I'm gonna need about 4000$, which based on this low SPR price, means that I have to get rid of all my current SPR holdings, and pay the rest with a little fiat out of my own pocket.

What motivation will you have to make SPR grow and prosper without having any SPR?
 

Let me ask you back: if my efforts make the price of SPR rise, will you as a patron support me LESS or MORE?  8)

Also, if your goal is to decentralize why would you want to sell that much SPR to another individual like the person trying to buy 300k plus?

I love rich people, I want to be a rich person myself.

Rich SPR holders can't create centralization with their money.
Much like large BTC holders can't really do anything except sell or hold their money.

BUT: It looks entirely different when we talk about a mechanism like that used in Dash/Darkcoin (or other masternode-schemes):
Suddenly, those who hold large amounts of the currency get to control AND CENTRALIZE actual full nodes.

And THAT ALONE is what I have a problem with, not rich people.
I don't care who owns SPR and how much.
I care about whether this money can be used to compromise decentralization.

Servicenodes will NOT work like masternodes at all.

....

I can answer in more detail, but I'd rather not write these unreadable large posts. Nobody will want to read them anyway.
I'm awaiting your feedback.
I want you to absolutely understand my motivation.

georgem

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Re: Main discussion thread (similar to BCT)
« Reply #127 on: January 24, 2017, 05:34:59 am »
I will post this here too, because I think it further explains my reasoning and why I have made this decision.
Thanks for your consideration.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@rhinomonkey:

Do you remember back in August/September when I openly started to contemplate the idea of "regular donations" and how they could help me more than anything else to achieve some kind of consistency in my work output?

That's how the seed for "patronage" was planted.

You understood my reasoning very well back then, and I am thankful for the regular(!) donations that you made in the following 3-4 months or so.

I hope that you will admit, seeing the current state of the spreadwallet etc... that something has considerably changed to the better. Right?
Because regular support (even if it is small right now) is what is needed to achieve some form of consistency.

But do you remember how some other people reacted back then?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1045373.msg16114566#msg16114566



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(How fitting that they are both crowncoiners now, lol.)

Their reaction:
"georgem already own lots of SPR, therefor asking for regular donations is an insult"
... is basically what I heard them say.

Their reaction set a thought process in motion in my mind that made it clear to me that something is very very wrong with the SPR that I own,
how I received them, why I received them, and what I am expected to do with them. (wow, think about that for a minute)

So let me get this straight, I have been carrying these SPR around with me for more than a year, but they never really were of any help to me.
And even worse, when I try to actually make use of them (like I am trying today)...
..many people lose their minds.

LMAO!

Yet, stonehedge will claim that I have received all this wonderful help from him.
Well... for this to actually take place I would need to actually "finalize the deal" and "take profit", right?

Which is why I want to put this money to good use, as soon as possible, and also get rid of it at the same time.

The fact that I still own a considerable amount of SPR, undoubtetly stops people from becoming patrons because they think:
"this guy already owns an ungodly amount of SPR, I'm not gonna help this stupid fucker."

I can't have it both ways.
Either I do funding through patronage (which means immediate support in the here and now),
or I hold large amounts of SPR so that I can "fund later what I need funded now"... huh? ???

I already made my decision.

georgem

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Re: Main discussion thread (similar to BCT)
« Reply #128 on: January 24, 2017, 06:04:30 am »
@Patrons and Supporters.

So, I got a few things off my chest today.
Please don't read too much into it, look at it as some sort of house cleaning.

Ok.

Now the next thing that I want to work on regarding spreadwallet,
is to not add any more features right now, but to keep the current state as it is,
and just debug it a little and finalize those things that are just half finished.

The goal is to send you guys a working version that you can run on your computers, stable and reliable.
They will not do much, but you can watch the videos to get an idea about what you will be able to do.

I will create versions for windows, mac and linux.
What systems do you guys have available?

Have a nice evening.

georgem

pokeytex

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Re: Main discussion thread (similar to BCT)
« Reply #129 on: January 24, 2017, 12:11:27 pm »
Clear, concise questions, I love it.

Why sell your SPR?
 

To buy hardware, right now, so that I can use it, right now.
I calculated that I'm gonna need about 4000$, which based on this low SPR price, means that I have to get rid of all my current SPR holdings, and pay the rest with a little fiat out of my own pocket.

What motivation will you have to make SPR grow and prosper without having any SPR?
 

Let me ask you back: if my efforts make the price of SPR rise, will you as a patron support me LESS or MORE?  8)

Also, if your goal is to decentralize why would you want to sell that much SPR to another individual like the person trying to buy 300k plus?

I love rich people, I want to be a rich person myself.

Rich SPR holders can't create centralization with their money.
Much like large BTC holders can't really do anything except sell or hold their money.

BUT: It looks entirely different when we talk about a mechanism like that used in Dash/Darkcoin (or other masternode-schemes):
Suddenly, those who hold large amounts of the currency get to control AND CENTRALIZE actual full nodes.

And THAT ALONE is what I have a problem with, not rich people.
I don't care who owns SPR and how much.
I care about whether this money can be used to compromise decentralization.

Servicenodes will NOT work like masternodes at all.

....

I can answer in more detail, but I'd rather not write these unreadable large posts. Nobody will want to read them anyway.
I'm awaiting your feedback.
I want you to absolutely understand my motivation.

@georgem - I appreciate the answers and maybe I am reading into this too much - am I understanding correctly that the servicenode solution will not be based on how much SPR you hold but rather another mechanism?  8) - I might be trying to read between the lines too much.  It is hard for me to wrap my head around but I believe you have more up your sleeve that you aren't disclosing yet!  Interesting... 

pokeytex

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Re: Main discussion thread (similar to BCT)
« Reply #130 on: January 24, 2017, 12:13:08 pm »
@Patrons and Supporters.

So, I got a few things off my chest today.
Please don't read too much into it, look at it as some sort of house cleaning.

Ok.

Now the next thing that I want to work on regarding spreadwallet,
is to not add any more features right now, but to keep the current state as it is,
and just debug it a little and finalize those things that are just half finished.

The goal is to send you guys a working version that you can run on your computers, stable and reliable.
They will not do much, but you can watch the videos to get an idea about what you will be able to do.

I will create versions for windows, mac and linux.
What systems do you guys have available?

Have a nice evening.

georgem

I pledge .05 BTC (sorry it is not more - I am a guppy in a sea of whales!) when I receive this wallet...  Most appreciated. - pokeytex

georgem

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Re: Main discussion thread (similar to BCT)
« Reply #131 on: January 24, 2017, 03:52:14 pm »
@georgem - I appreciate the answers and maybe I am reading into this too much - am I understanding correctly that the servicenode solution will not be based on how much SPR you hold but rather another mechanism?  8) - I might be trying to read between the lines too much.  It is hard for me to wrap my head around but I believe you have more up your sleeve that you aren't disclosing yet!  Interesting...

Yes, definitely.

Although this is still evolving, look at what I talked about in the past, like:

  • competitive collateral
  • miners voting how much reward they want to give
  • etc

I need more research, something is still missing to make this all work.
The goal is to make it hard to run a servicenode profitable. Sounds weird and unintuitive?
It isn't. It's true capitalist economy.
It's the same reason why it is hard to make "mining" profitable, or "developing" for that matter (look at the struggles that I am having, lol).
If I the dev and the miners have to struggle all the time to get by, why should servicenodes have an easy time?  ;D

Running a servicenode should be equally tense and exhausting as running a miner, which means:
  • no guaranteed profits
  • profits are based on the price of SPR, and how much miners are willing to give
  • Should SPR have a price spike then servicenodes will be profitable. Should the price drop then the "income" will be lower

Look at this real world example:

I currently run 2 servers that cost me about 60 dollars each a month.
I use them for a few websites, everything spreadcoin and a few personal things.
And I also run a few full nodes on them (2x SPR, 2x BTC). Those nodes have been operating nicely during the last 2 years, but I've been doing a few experiments, so they are not online 24/7.
(1 SPR node is 24/7, because it is a seed node for SPR)
My servers have always been capable of handling both website traffic AND fullnode traffic without any problem.

Now, I don't need someone to promise me that I will receive 70 dollars a month when I run a servicenode (with bitcoin node) on a server.
I will be happy enough when running a servicenode on each of my servers gives me atleast SOMETHING back,
so that the operating costs of 60$/month get reduced to a certain extent.
How much I can't say, 5$, 10$, 30$? Obviously it will fluctuate.
It's the same principle with miners who always get atleast SOMETHING back for their work, although often not enough to be profitable.
Doesn't matter, people are still mining.

How much "income" servicenodes generate I can't say, but look at it as a form of subsidy,
the good kind of subsidy.
Because that's what we want to do:
we want to encourage people who run a server to operate a servicenode on it, so that they can reduce their overall servercosts.

It is NOT possible to promise them constant profits or even a positive ROI (as Dash does with masternodes).
This would be like promising miners a positive ROI all the time, and how would that make any sense???  :o
It would clearly be a scam or a ponzi like structure that tries to pay of the old guys by luring in new people with all kinds of deceptive PR etc...

georgem

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Re: Main discussion thread (similar to BCT)
« Reply #132 on: January 24, 2017, 03:53:13 pm »
I pledge .05 BTC (sorry it is not more - I am a guppy in a sea of whales!) when I receive this wallet...  Most appreciated. - pokeytex

Thanks, that's very nice of you.

georgem

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Re: Main discussion thread (similar to BCT)
« Reply #133 on: January 24, 2017, 04:47:48 pm »
Georgem, I want pictures of hamsters!

Not pictures of the Spread community.  :P

Haha, you are right, but I don't think the Spread community is the problem.  8)

I never introduced you guys to my other hamster.

female djungarian dwarf hamster, 6 months old , has no official spreadcoin name yet:







She'll become the mascot of the spreadminer.

Hey minerpage, can you give her a name?
I would love that.

 :)

georgem

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Re: Main discussion thread (similar to BCT)
« Reply #134 on: January 24, 2017, 04:48:24 pm »
BTW, in the spreadwallet, I have been including country-flags and a compact IPv4 and IPv6 database.

Both are free software or available under a creative commons license.

Country-Flags are from here:

http://www.famfamfam.com/lab/icons/flags/




And IP-Data is from MAXMIND GeoLite2 free edition:

http://dev.maxmind.com/geoip/geoip2/geolite2/

It consists of 3 csv-files that are imported into the spreadwallet.

Just for your information.