Poll

Continue old BCT-thread or new self-moderated BCT-thread?

Old original BCT-Thread
17 (54.8%)
New self-moderator BCT-Thread
14 (45.2%)

Total Members Voted: 29

Author Topic: Continue old BCT-thread or new self-moderated BCT-thread?  (Read 16524 times)

luigi1111

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Re: Continue old BCT-thread or new self-moderated BCT-thread?
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2015, 05:59:31 pm »
Unmoderated, easily...if you need to have productive discussion, just do it here. Self-moderation ANN threads have a big scam stigma.

georgem

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Re: Continue old BCT-thread or new self-moderated BCT-thread?
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2015, 06:19:23 pm »
Unmoderated, easily...if you need to have productive discussion, just do it here. Self-moderation ANN threads have a big scam stigma.

Absolutely.

Let's remove that stigma, and return to the dirty troll infested way every coin has to walk on... let's not be "different" as far as that goes...

georgem

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Re: Continue old BCT-thread or new self-moderated BCT-thread?
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2015, 06:25:10 pm »
THIS IS SPREADCOIN!   >:(

Let's take our 300 page thread back!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=715435.new#new


duboisi

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Re: Continue old BCT-thread or new self-moderated BCT-thread?
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2015, 06:32:16 pm »
Must differentiate Free Speech and Terrorism.

MyFarm

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Re: Continue old BCT-thread or new self-moderated BCT-thread?
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2015, 07:10:14 pm »
MyFarm, you started this thread:

"When Mr. Spread is unbanned from BTC Talk I suggest we start a moderated ..."

and seeing that we didn't wait for Mr. Spread to be unbanned but instead we made the very hasty decision to accelerate things and just start a new thread...

... this makes me believe that we are not in control here, but always acting in "zugzwang" (to borrow a chess-term)... it's like we don't have the freedom to decide our next step voluntarily, but are always forced to do something. Exactly as intended by the coordinated trolls.

That's why I say we need to reevaluate our decision.

The trolling was getting so bad I PM'd Mr. Spread and asked him if he'd like me to create a new thread and he said yes.  I posted a screenshot of that conversation.

Make no mistake, the reason the trolling has decreased in the original thread is because of the new thread.  The trolling WILL come back and we'll have to wade through countless piles of shit.

There will be no scam stigma for Spreadcoin because the technology will speak for itself.  Vaporwear self-moderated threads are something different.  Self-moderated where hard questions are allowed and the dev is releasing top quality code is obviously not a scam to anyone with half a brain.  Everyone understands BCT is a fucking cesspool. 

georgem

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Re: Continue old BCT-thread or new self-moderated BCT-thread?
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2015, 07:13:01 pm »
Must differentiate Free Speech and Terrorism.

Governments are working hard these days to make "Free Speech" = "Terrorism"...

But if you really want to differentiate between these two, then you NEED free speech.

Let the troll show what a troll he is, let him show his foul tongue so that everybody can recognize him for what he is.
Nothing exposes peoples real intentions more than them exercising free speech.
 8)

georgem

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Re: Continue old BCT-thread or new self-moderated BCT-thread?
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2015, 07:26:39 pm »
Make no mistake, the reason the trolling has decreased in the original thread is because of the new thread.  The trolling WILL come back and we'll have to wade through countless piles of shit.
There will be no scam stigma for Spreadcoin because the technology will speak for itself.  Vaporwear self-moderated threads are something different.  Self-moderated where hard questions are allowed and the dev is releasing top quality code is obviously not a scam to anyone with half a brain.  Everyone understands BCT is a fucking cesspool.

The good thing about the trolls is, they are easily spotted and ignored.
Ofcourse they will come back.
The question is how will we handle them this time?
I want to see us overcome this sickness in a healthy way, without the need to amputate one of our limbs (100% free speech for everybody) to achieve that goal.

SandwichSpread

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Re: Continue old BCT-thread or new self-moderated BCT-thread?
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2015, 08:06:47 pm »
I also think we should get back to the original thread.
We must not get provoked, and reply to all the fudd, you can also ignore someone for a while.
But difficult questions need to be aswered. And a dialog must be open.
A moderated thread does not do this enough I guess.

This is our thread! Lets take matters back into our hands.
SpreadCoin address: SiCMKGPLsRPKnZ5jCVHgGgGba1ew2DLShv

georgem

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Re: Continue old BCT-thread or new self-moderated BCT-thread?
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2015, 08:30:11 pm »

Hatch

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Re: Continue old BCT-thread or new self-moderated BCT-thread?
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2015, 09:09:31 pm »
"At one point we had so many people harassing us that we couldn't discuss SPR without someone trying to destroy what we said. It made productivity impossible. Someone else created a separate thread (which is moderated) so that we could remain productive without people attempting to manipulate price through slander."

This will be my only next to last post (with one clarification post ) regarding the old and new threads...

I am a FIRM believer in keeping the mod thread and letting this one go.

Just because YOU "ignored" them, just means that YOU didn't see all the TRASH and BS they were leaving around unchallenged. It didn't stop any new people interested in SPR from getting SLAMMED with all that crap. The ONLY reason it stopped is because of the modded thread.

And IF you delete the modded thread, who's to say they wont start up the sock puppet trash generation campaign again tomorrow, or next week, or next month... Whenever they want to kill the price again which is EXACTLY what they intended and succeeded in doing the last time. We didn't defeat shit. They stopped because they couldn't get to us anymore because their crap was not allowed to persist in the modded thread. The only reason they stopped is because they lost control.

Any argument about "modded thread making the coin look weak", "laughing stock BS", "not knowing how to deal with trolls", etc is a straw argument... The only reason it exists is because a modded thread wasn't created in the first place... What are we? Pre-Schoolers on the playground believing that the bully that beat the crap out of us for fun has been reformed and won't be a bully tomorrow? Ever heard the story of the Frog and the Scorpion trying to get across the river? Don't fall for it. Keep the modded thread and keep it professional.

It will stand up for itself as people see that the difficult issues are NOT modded, only the trash.

Save what you want from this thread and then kill it.

georgem

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Re: Continue old BCT-thread or new self-moderated BCT-thread?
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2015, 10:09:28 pm »
Just because YOU "ignored" them, just means that YOU didn't see all the TRASH and BS they were leaving around unchallenged. It didn't stop any new people interested in SPR from getting SLAMMED with all that crap.

Why do you see the need to protect the newcomers from being slammed with crap?
Who made you their "protector"?

Do you think the newcomers are like children, and they need to be protected from the bad world out there?

That's the old fallacy of giving up your freedom for a little security. That's completely antithetical to what DECENTRALIZATION stands for.

The ONLY reason it stopped is because of the modded thread.

Wrong!
The only reason they stopped is because they succeeded in making us bow to their demands.
LMAO they made us leave our own home thread, for crying out loud!!!  >:(

This all feels like a nightmare that is finally over...

Listen: in the whole history of BCT there has NEVER been an endless troll-attack that just went on and on forever.
Trolls don't work like that. They want fast success, they choose easy targets... They want you to do their bidding, and then they leave.

Trolls only leave when...

a) they succeed!
b) they find an easier target!
c) they realize that they will not succeed!

And IF you delete the modded thread, who's to say they wont start up the sock puppet trash generation campaign again tomorrow, or next week, or next month... Whenever they want to kill the price again which is EXACTLY what they intended and succeeded in doing the last time. We didn't defeat shit. They stopped because they couldn't get to us anymore because their crap was not allowed to persist in the modded thread. The only reason they stopped is because they lost control.

 ???
I don't care what happens with the modded thread, what a red herring argument.

What we should care about is what happens with our original 300 page thread started by the dev himself, a thread grown thru the participation of a caring community over the period of many months.

Let the trolls come!
Give them nothing!

Any argument about "modded thread making the coin look weak", "laughing stock BS", "not knowing how to deal with trolls", etc is a straw argument... The only reason it exists is because a modded thread wasn't created in the first place... What are we? Pre-Schoolers on the playground believing that the bully that beat the crap out of us for fun has been reformed and won't be a bully tomorrow? Ever heard the story of the Frog and the Scorpion trying to get across the river? Don't fall for it. Keep the modded thread and keep it professional.

It will stand up for itself as people see that the difficult issues are NOT modded, only the trash.

Care to explain why darkcoin and hundreds of other coins SURVIVED the continuous troll attacks, and are now standing strong?
Based on your logic they shouldn't have succeeded, because the constant trolling would have destroyed their un-moderated threads, right?

.... but this didn't happen!

It never does!

In the end it never does!  ;D

If others were able to handle the trolls, why shouldn't we succeed too?

Save what you want from this thread and then kill it.

That's curious.. You are the first one who is supposedly part of our community who I hear demanding that we should "kill" our original thread!
Why do you want to kill it? I mean I would have assumed that you self-moderators where thinking about maybe locking it at some point in time, but killing it?

RenegadeMan

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Re: Continue old BCT-thread or new self-moderated BCT-thread?
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2015, 02:07:28 am »
Have just read everyone's for and against arguments.

I'm for keeping the old thread and deleting the new one.

The troll-fest is a clear sign that Spread has something for people to worry about. The key is for people to not engage with the FUDsters apart from an initial rebuttal of their lies or innuendo. It's the constant back and forth tit-for-tat interaction with them that fills the thread up with crap. Many Spread people are engaging just way too much (and there's one guy that writes the most unbelievably verbose posts that take way more time to read than the FUD posts plus he gets absolutely "hooked" by them again and again which just throws fuel on the fire and keeps them motivated).

I think a censored thread isn't the right message to be putting out there. Gerogem's comments on what makes trolls stay versus what makes them give up and leave are spot on. Ignoring them is the key, even when they're plastering never ending lies; they just can't stand being ignored, but that is what eventually stops them. And, sure, there'll be a noob or two that takes it all in and misunderstand what's true about Spread, but that's the nature of BCT and the advantages of having an unmoderated thread versus a censored one are many.

I'm continuing to read both threads each day but it would be nice to just have the single original one to go to, FUD and all.

njs811

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Re: Continue old BCT-thread or new self-moderated BCT-thread?
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2015, 02:36:11 am »
I think we should all agree to use the Old Thread but keep the new thread. Perhaps the trolls will stay at bay because they have no clue what is going on.

MemoryShock

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Re: Continue old BCT-thread or new self-moderated BCT-thread?
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2015, 02:42:35 am »
Keep them both.  Time will tell which one gets used more.

I agree that we need free speech but organized fud is outside of that debate especially within a community that is growing.

Edit to add - I didn't vote and see no need to.  Let the free market decide...; )

Hatch

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Re: Continue old BCT-thread or new self-moderated BCT-thread?
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2015, 03:56:45 am »
Ok.

Let me try to clarify a few things before letting the chips fall where they may...

1) I don't consider this a "game." There are real dollars and lots of time invested in the outcome of this project.

2) "Who made you their "protector"? Do you think the newcomers are like children, and they need to be protected from the bad world out there? That's the old fallacy of giving up your freedom for a little security. That's completely antithetical to what DECENTRALIZATION stands for."

It isn't so much about "protecting" anyone as it is being able to put our best foot forward at all times... If you are inviting people to your house, don't you like to keep it welcoming, neat, and  presentable? If you are driving down the street shopping for a house, what draws your attention first, the condemned looking place with weeds all over the place, or the nice lived in looking place next door with the neat and tidy yard? If you have money to invest in real estate, do you go looking for properties in the ghetto, or in a more hospitable, less crime ridden part of the city more conducive to people and commerce? If your shopping for a car, and you have two of the same make, model and relative price, which one do you seriously look at first, the one with a salvage title that looks as if it's never been washed with bald tires and drops of oil under the engine, or the one that is clean as a whistle, was one owner garage kept, and has a a clear title?

Keeping the new thread should be just as obvious...

Seriously, why waste the time and effort over a ridiculous and ongoing battle of fud and sockpuppets that never needs to be fought again? Don't we all have better things to do than wasting our time and energy on an aggravation that shouldn't be there to begin with?

Unless you feel this is just some game or hobby for fun and kicks,  we should want  to have the ability to manage "OUR" assets as much as possible... Just because we CAN moderate doesn't mean we WILL moderate all the time or for no reason. Its no different than being able to take care of your house. Personally, I don't want the situation where a bunch of clowns that are supposedly our "community friends" are putting on masks (making themselves more anonymous than they already are), coming into our house and taking a dump in the middle of our living room floor and smearing doodoo all over the place, and NOT be able to clean up the mess. WE have to live here, They don't... What skin is it off their back to come into our house and make a mess of the place whenever they wish, knowing that WE can't do anything about it. A Modded thread addresses that issue.

Please don't give me a load kaka about freedoms and decentralization, blah, blah... NONE of these forums are truly "free." The are all owned  and modded to some extent by somebody... These forums are modded by the BCT crew whether we like it or not. Where is the freedom in that? Not to mention that the way they left all the sock puppets alone to wreak havoc in our thread and then BANNED Mr. Spread for a simple post about distributing "fake" coins for a seriously important test leads me to believe that one or more of them might be pretty partial to DRK for one reason or the other...

"They made us leave our own home" and "Why did Drk and hundred other coins survive blah blah blah...

First of all, WHO THE HELL FRIGGIN CARES? I mean besides people with questionable values and\or motives to begin with?

Its a forum thread!

A forum thread that has no purpose but to centralize information for discussion. When the signal to noise ratio is so bad that it cannot perform that function, what value is there? Discussions from 6 months ago? Other than information that can easily be updated to the OP, its all old news that doesn't really matter today.

Spread is so relatively young, do you honestly think the war is over? This relatively peaceful break is nothing more than a lull. Other than some sort of childish misplaced bravado about "taking it back'" so "WE CAN WIN!" (false), "It was our home!" etc... Seriously? Are we really generating some kind of emotional feelings of value, ownership, and pride over a forum thread? A thread that was so easily manipulated into such a pile of trash that even the founder of the thread agreed to a modded alternative? I hope you guys aren't gamblers! That is one heck of a mindset for losing your shirt. Never let your emotions determine your actions!  NONE of this should be personal.

That said, what is the point of keeping it? So we can fight the same battle all over again, and again, and again?!?!?! As soon as we close or get rid of the modded thread, we are right back in the same leaky boat we just escaped from, are vulnerable again, and WILL be attacked again. It's not a matter of if, but when... We would have to be incredibly naive and be a gluttons for punishment to go back.

The only people that want us to NOT have a modded thread other than those of questionable priorities, are those that fully intend and will take advantage of the situation again in the future.  It would be one thing if everyone HAD to use a single account, but it just isn't a fair fight with the sock puppet terrorism. The coin, the developer, the community, and the restrained modding practices will easily nullify any censorship or "scammy" feelings a modded thread might incite.

And as far as DRK and all the others that "survived" with open forums? Again, who cares about them? We should care about Spread. Whatever they did then was then, this is now.  Please tell me that you did participate with the rest of us throughout the 2014 summer of scam, scammers, and shitcoins? It is rather obvious that the community has been expanding quite a bit (not even counting all the extra sock puppets lol!) over the last year, and what was a manageable problem then, just isn't so easily  managed now with the bigger community and the bogus accounts that can and are being created just for nefarious purposes.

Bottom line, I just don't see the value or ROI in going back. I think we should move forward with our NEW house focusing on important matters rather than our past, including the old "termite infested house" of a thread that has no real world value other than as a tool with which to manipulate and attack us with again sometime in the future.